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	<title>Comments on: Wolves Are Killers</title>
	<link>http://www.sosforests.com/?p=504</link>
	<description>Protecting, maintaining, and perpetuating America's priceless, heritage forests</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 06:57:42 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.1</generator>

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		<title>By: WolvesGoneWild - Wolves, Press, Politics and the Environmental Extreme</title>
		<link>http://www.sosforests.com/?p=504#comment-19663</link>
		<author>WolvesGoneWild - Wolves, Press, Politics and the Environmental Extreme</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 May 2007 07:40:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sosforests.com/?p=504#comment-19663</guid>
		<description>[...] &lt;a href="http://www.wolvesgonewild.com/?p=17" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow"&gt;Besides kissing with wolves (How to get to First Base with a Wolf) there are actually people that believe wolves are good neighbors as shown in a recent post on SOSForests.com.&lt;/a&gt; [...]

&lt;em&gt;(Follow this track back to WolvesGoneWild for an excellent review of documented wolf-on-human attacks -- Mike)&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] <a href="http://www.wolvesgonewild.com/?p=17" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">Besides kissing with wolves (How to get to First Base with a Wolf) there are actually people that believe wolves are good neighbors as shown in a recent post on SOSForests.com.</a> [&#8230;]</p>
<p><em>(Follow this track back to WolvesGoneWild for an excellent review of documented wolf-on-human attacks &#8212; Mike)</em></p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.sosforests.com/?p=504#comment-18746</link>
		<author>Mike</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 May 2007 01:50:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sosforests.com/?p=504#comment-18746</guid>
		<description>Mary,

I favor the notion of people getting a taste of their own medicine. If legal snarls are the alleged reason wolves have to be dumped in private backyards, then legal snarls should be visited upon the perps who do the dumping.

Federal employees in NM are going to find out, if they don't know it already, that their agencies will drop them like hot rocks if they break the law (or get caught at it).

It only takes one or two made examples to sear the message into the heads of the others. This isn't Iraq. There are no safe havens in the urban slums for terrorists here, especially eco-terrorists in the Federal employ.

Just filing a batch of formal complaints with the Fed Atty, and asking your Congresspersons to do the same, will scare the crap out of every USFWS employee, large or small, in the Nation.

And 3-strike wolf dumping will cease forever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mary,</p>
<p>I favor the notion of people getting a taste of their own medicine. If legal snarls are the alleged reason wolves have to be dumped in private backyards, then legal snarls should be visited upon the perps who do the dumping.</p>
<p>Federal employees in NM are going to find out, if they don&#8217;t know it already, that their agencies will drop them like hot rocks if they break the law (or get caught at it).</p>
<p>It only takes one or two made examples to sear the message into the heads of the others. This isn&#8217;t Iraq. There are no safe havens in the urban slums for terrorists here, especially eco-terrorists in the Federal employ.</p>
<p>Just filing a batch of formal complaints with the Fed Atty, and asking your Congresspersons to do the same, will scare the crap out of every USFWS employee, large or small, in the Nation.</p>
<p>And 3-strike wolf dumping will cease forever.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://www.sosforests.com/?p=504#comment-18738</link>
		<author>Mary</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 22:02:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sosforests.com/?p=504#comment-18738</guid>
		<description>Mike, you sound knowledgable on all this legal stuff.

Rural folks here are coming around but it was completely out of their social context for people to actually behave the way these people do. Acting all friendly one minute and then assaulting and endangering the people, their families, property and livelihoods the next, as these government agencies have been. Kinda hard to see at first with no previous social context to measure it against. Most local residents would just like everyone to feel at home and free to help themselves at the cookie jar and have bent over backwards to comply with whatever the agencies required and suggested.

There seem to be several/many illegalities happening simultaneously here. Threats of serious repercussions by wolf management if the county tries to lawfully protect their citizens from illegal endangerment has got to be extortion. Many of these so called recoveries and such overstep jurisdiction by making their executive "Laws" and "Rules" at complete odds with the real basic fundamental rights to protection of property etc.that are the founding bedrock of our legal system thus fraudulently claiming authority where there is none. This crime is deep and many faceted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, you sound knowledgable on all this legal stuff.</p>
<p>Rural folks here are coming around but it was completely out of their social context for people to actually behave the way these people do. Acting all friendly one minute and then assaulting and endangering the people, their families, property and livelihoods the next, as these government agencies have been. Kinda hard to see at first with no previous social context to measure it against. Most local residents would just like everyone to feel at home and free to help themselves at the cookie jar and have bent over backwards to comply with whatever the agencies required and suggested.</p>
<p>There seem to be several/many illegalities happening simultaneously here. Threats of serious repercussions by wolf management if the county tries to lawfully protect their citizens from illegal endangerment has got to be extortion. Many of these so called recoveries and such overstep jurisdiction by making their executive &#8220;Laws&#8221; and &#8220;Rules&#8221; at complete odds with the real basic fundamental rights to protection of property etc.that are the founding bedrock of our legal system thus fraudulently claiming authority where there is none. This crime is deep and many faceted.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.sosforests.com/?p=504#comment-18730</link>
		<author>Mike</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 18:52:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sosforests.com/?p=504#comment-18730</guid>
		<description>I might add, for all you legal eagles, that if those illegally released wolves attack livestock or God forbid a human being, then the criminal charges against USFWS personnel will skyrocket.

It is in everybody's best interests to "remove" the 3-strike wolves immediately before the inevitable and expected (intended) consequences result.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I might add, for all you legal eagles, that if those illegally released wolves attack livestock or God forbid a human being, then the criminal charges against USFWS personnel will skyrocket.</p>
<p>It is in everybody&#8217;s best interests to &#8220;remove&#8221; the 3-strike wolves immediately before the inevitable and expected (intended) consequences result.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.sosforests.com/?p=504#comment-18720</link>
		<author>Mike</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 17:23:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sosforests.com/?p=504#comment-18720</guid>
		<description>The Law of the Jungle has been superceded by the Law of the Land. We live in a society now, and we have a legal system.

Law-abiding citizens should not be forced to live under the boot heels of criminals, whether those criminals are government employees or civilians. 

Illegal dumping of killer predators is the equivalent (or worse) of shooting off guns in school yards. It is more than anti-social behavior; it is illegal endangerment and it merits the punishment due to all felons.

If you do the crime, then you must do the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Law of the Jungle has been superceded by the Law of the Land. We live in a society now, and we have a legal system.</p>
<p>Law-abiding citizens should not be forced to live under the boot heels of criminals, whether those criminals are government employees or civilians. </p>
<p>Illegal dumping of killer predators is the equivalent (or worse) of shooting off guns in school yards. It is more than anti-social behavior; it is illegal endangerment and it merits the punishment due to all felons.</p>
<p>If you do the crime, then you must do the time.</p>
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		<title>By: Wild</title>
		<link>http://www.sosforests.com/?p=504#comment-18719</link>
		<author>Wild</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 17:17:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sosforests.com/?p=504#comment-18719</guid>
		<description>Humans have not only been attacked but have been killed by wolves. The new romantic religion surrounding the "peaceful" wolf is unreal. 

Here is a case history of Wolf Human encounters in Alaska and Canada.

http://www.wc.adfg.state.ak.us/pubs/techpubs/research_pdfs/techb13_full.pdf

The corner confirmed that Kenton Carnegie died of large canine bites. His death has been greatly distorted and it is completely tragic to treat his parents this way. Please read:

http://wolfcrossing.org/blog/2007/02/01/dad-of-wolf-attack-victim-speaks-out-about-ng-documentary/

There is more to the story, but National Geographic and others want to keep the religion going so they can keep you watching and put money in their pockets.

If you think wolves are so wonderful, RRG, then you should come down to the Southwest and hang with our habitual wolves here. They will come into your camp site, and not be as friendly as you might imagine.

Mike is right. These animals are not good neighbors nor are they good for the environment. In a Range Magazine  article entitled &lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;Groundhog Day at the Wolf Wars&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/strong&gt; (&lt;a href="http://www.rangemagazine.com/archives/stories/summer03/ground-hog.htm" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;) Dr. B. DeGear wrote about Dr.&lt;em&gt; &lt;/em&gt;L. David Mech, senior research scientist for the USGS BRD, who documented the extirpation of deer by wolves:
&lt;blockquote&gt;I asked him about his study on wolves that had wiped out the deer herd in Superior National Forest in 1975. He said I was absolutely right. I bravely ventured further, “And no hunters were responsible, right?” Right, he assured me as well as the group at the table, and added that the deer herd had still not recovered there. So I sat back to observe the reaction to this bomb planted in the wolf people’s midst. Nothing.

“Aren’t wolves interesting animals? Yes, there is so much we don’t understand about ecology. Do you still return to Ellesmere Island, Dr. Mech? Oh, how wonderful.” Even though he carefully interrupted to explain that the musk oxen and snowshoe hares had also been wiped out there by wolves.

I was stunned back into silence. What good would it do me to remind these people that even Indians and Eskimos trapped and hunted wolves heavily? The facts are either ignored or interpreted to fit the dream world. The rest of the symposium continually reconfirmed my frustrating epiphany that education was not going to work.

One bright spot was an emotional outburst from one of the booted and hatted Apaches now standing at the back of the room. In broken English he said something like “Get rid of wolves. We no want wolves. Get rid of them.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;
So RRG I hope you will educate yourself and come down and see what is going on here on the ground with the people forced to live with these wolves. You will see a side the eco-extremists do not want you to see. Then you can see the TRUTH about wolves and what they are doing to your national forests in your name with your tax dollars.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Humans have not only been attacked but have been killed by wolves. The new romantic religion surrounding the &#8220;peaceful&#8221; wolf is unreal. </p>
<p>Here is a case history of Wolf Human encounters in Alaska and Canada.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.wc.adfg.state.ak.us/pubs/techpubs/research_pdfs/techb13_full.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.wc.adfg.state.ak.us/pubs/techpubs/research_pdfs/techb13_full.pdf</a></p>
<p>The corner confirmed that Kenton Carnegie died of large canine bites. His death has been greatly distorted and it is completely tragic to treat his parents this way. Please read:</p>
<p><a href="http://wolfcrossing.org/blog/2007/02/01/dad-of-wolf-attack-victim-speaks-out-about-ng-documentary/" rel="nofollow">http://wolfcrossing.org/blog/2007/02/01/dad-of-wolf-attack-victim-speaks-out-about-ng-documentary/</a></p>
<p>There is more to the story, but National Geographic and others want to keep the religion going so they can keep you watching and put money in their pockets.</p>
<p>If you think wolves are so wonderful, RRG, then you should come down to the Southwest and hang with our habitual wolves here. They will come into your camp site, and not be as friendly as you might imagine.</p>
<p>Mike is right. These animals are not good neighbors nor are they good for the environment. In a Range Magazine  article entitled <strong><em>Groundhog Day at the Wolf Wars</em></strong> (<a href="http://www.rangemagazine.com/archives/stories/summer03/ground-hog.htm" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">here</a>) Dr. B. DeGear wrote about Dr.<em> </em>L. David Mech, senior research scientist for the USGS BRD, who documented the extirpation of deer by wolves:</p>
<blockquote><p>I asked him about his study on wolves that had wiped out the deer herd in Superior National Forest in 1975. He said I was absolutely right. I bravely ventured further, “And no hunters were responsible, right?” Right, he assured me as well as the group at the table, and added that the deer herd had still not recovered there. So I sat back to observe the reaction to this bomb planted in the wolf people’s midst. Nothing.</p>
<p>“Aren’t wolves interesting animals? Yes, there is so much we don’t understand about ecology. Do you still return to Ellesmere Island, Dr. Mech? Oh, how wonderful.” Even though he carefully interrupted to explain that the musk oxen and snowshoe hares had also been wiped out there by wolves.</p>
<p>I was stunned back into silence. What good would it do me to remind these people that even Indians and Eskimos trapped and hunted wolves heavily? The facts are either ignored or interpreted to fit the dream world. The rest of the symposium continually reconfirmed my frustrating epiphany that education was not going to work.</p>
<p>One bright spot was an emotional outburst from one of the booted and hatted Apaches now standing at the back of the room. In broken English he said something like “Get rid of wolves. We no want wolves. Get rid of them.”</p></blockquote>
<p>So RRG I hope you will educate yourself and come down and see what is going on here on the ground with the people forced to live with these wolves. You will see a side the eco-extremists do not want you to see. Then you can see the TRUTH about wolves and what they are doing to your national forests in your name with your tax dollars.</p>
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		<title>By: Celeste</title>
		<link>http://www.sosforests.com/?p=504#comment-18718</link>
		<author>Celeste</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 16:49:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sosforests.com/?p=504#comment-18718</guid>
		<description>It seems that when RESIDENTS of land where predators live are allowed to shoot "problem" predators, both the humans and the predators come to a sort of "agreement".  Basically the same for any predator, animal or human--you live your life and I'll live mine, but cross this line and kapow.

It's riculous to release wolves that are used to humans. I'll bet the ranchers can't shoot back without a lawsuit.  I do know thre's a lot of SSS going on...

I guess part of the problem is they don't require kids to read "To Build a Fire" by Jack London anymore.

We live with cougars, we take precautions, but we are prepared to defend ourselves as well. (Isn't that the way nature works?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems that when RESIDENTS of land where predators live are allowed to shoot &#8220;problem&#8221; predators, both the humans and the predators come to a sort of &#8220;agreement&#8221;.  Basically the same for any predator, animal or human&#8211;you live your life and I&#8217;ll live mine, but cross this line and kapow.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s riculous to release wolves that are used to humans. I&#8217;ll bet the ranchers can&#8217;t shoot back without a lawsuit.  I do know thre&#8217;s a lot of SSS going on&#8230;</p>
<p>I guess part of the problem is they don&#8217;t require kids to read &#8220;To Build a Fire&#8221; by Jack London anymore.</p>
<p>We live with cougars, we take precautions, but we are prepared to defend ourselves as well. (Isn&#8217;t that the way nature works?)</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.sosforests.com/?p=504#comment-18656</link>
		<author>Mike</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 06:01:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sosforests.com/?p=504#comment-18656</guid>
		<description>Oh, no! My credibility has been questioned! By whom? Why, it's SmartAss! A phony name from a phony dude who has not one scintilla of credibility and can't even provide a real name!

Chumley, if that is your real name, listen up. I know what I'm talking about. You are the phony here.

Kenton Carnegie, 22, was killed and partially consumed by wolves Nov. 8, 2005 at Points North Landing in northern Saskatchewan. A link to the inquest is (&lt;a href="http://www.durhamregion.com/dr/regions/top_stories/story/3675805p-4249247c.html" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;).

Last June a wolf attacked (but did not kill) six people, including children, at Lake Superior Provincial Park near Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario. Fortunately the wolf did not have rabies:
&lt;blockquote&gt;A lone black wolf that attacked six people, including several young children, in a provincial park over the long weekend has tested negative for rabies, the Algoma Health Unit said Wednesday.

The remains of the wolf, which has been blamed for several separate attacks Monday at the popular Katherine's Cove beach on Lake Superior, was tested for rabies and other diseases after it was shot by park staff.

... Emily Wright, 14, was among the half-dozen people who were attacked by the wolf at the beach at Lake Superior Provincial Park.

The little girl, who received about 15 stitches to her arm and more to her face and ear, fought off the wolf after it ripped into brother Casey's buttock and tore the hands and leg of her mother, Brenda.

... Before it was shot, the wolf attacked another couple at the north end of the beach. Then it clamped its jaws around three-year-old Leah Talbot's left upper arm and began dragging her away from her grandmother and sister.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
During the mid-1980’s a pack of wolves in Ashta India killed at least 17 children. See A. J. Singh. 2000. &lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;The man-eating wolves of Ashta&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;. Srishti Publishers and Distributors. New Delhi, India.

Wolf attacks have occurred recently in Finland and Russia. Linguist Will Graves is preparing a book on Russian wolves referencing many documented wolf-on-human killings. That book is being edited by Dr. Valerius Geist, Professor Emeritus of Environmental Science, the University of Calgary, and world-renowned expert on wild ungulates. Dr. Geist's next door neighbor was recently attacked (though not killed) by wolves. Dr. Geist's account and discussion is (&lt;a href="http://personal.inet.fi/luonto/mikael.broo/Val.htm" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;).

Be all that as it may, history teaches humanity that only a stone-cold fool would dare a wolf pack at night. Even USFWS "biologists" get bit, and they are like little Dr. Dolittle's, right? They commune with the wolves and are the two-legged friends of wolves, unless the wolves are hungry, which is most of the time for wolves.

The wolves released in Catron County, NM, were 3-strike killers of livestock. Are you so completely dense, SA, as to believe those wolves would not attack a child or adult should the opportunity arise? Unarmed, do you think a big, strong boy like you could fend off a wolf?

Those who would dump blood-thirsty predators into the backyards of their fellow humans are evil, SA. That's a purely evil thing to do. And it is not surprising (to me) that purveyors of pure evil, like you, SA, would wish to hide under a rock of anonymity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, no! My credibility has been questioned! By whom? Why, it&#8217;s SmartAss! A phony name from a phony dude who has not one scintilla of credibility and can&#8217;t even provide a real name!</p>
<p>Chumley, if that is your real name, listen up. I know what I&#8217;m talking about. You are the phony here.</p>
<p>Kenton Carnegie, 22, was killed and partially consumed by wolves Nov. 8, 2005 at Points North Landing in northern Saskatchewan. A link to the inquest is (<a href="http://www.durhamregion.com/dr/regions/top_stories/story/3675805p-4249247c.html" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">here</a>).</p>
<p>Last June a wolf attacked (but did not kill) six people, including children, at Lake Superior Provincial Park near Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario. Fortunately the wolf did not have rabies:</p>
<blockquote><p>A lone black wolf that attacked six people, including several young children, in a provincial park over the long weekend has tested negative for rabies, the Algoma Health Unit said Wednesday.</p>
<p>The remains of the wolf, which has been blamed for several separate attacks Monday at the popular Katherine&#8217;s Cove beach on Lake Superior, was tested for rabies and other diseases after it was shot by park staff.</p>
<p>&#8230; Emily Wright, 14, was among the half-dozen people who were attacked by the wolf at the beach at Lake Superior Provincial Park.</p>
<p>The little girl, who received about 15 stitches to her arm and more to her face and ear, fought off the wolf after it ripped into brother Casey&#8217;s buttock and tore the hands and leg of her mother, Brenda.</p>
<p>&#8230; Before it was shot, the wolf attacked another couple at the north end of the beach. Then it clamped its jaws around three-year-old Leah Talbot&#8217;s left upper arm and began dragging her away from her grandmother and sister.</p></blockquote>
<p>During the mid-1980’s a pack of wolves in Ashta India killed at least 17 children. See A. J. Singh. 2000. <strong><em>The man-eating wolves of Ashta</em></strong>. Srishti Publishers and Distributors. New Delhi, India.</p>
<p>Wolf attacks have occurred recently in Finland and Russia. Linguist Will Graves is preparing a book on Russian wolves referencing many documented wolf-on-human killings. That book is being edited by Dr. Valerius Geist, Professor Emeritus of Environmental Science, the University of Calgary, and world-renowned expert on wild ungulates. Dr. Geist&#8217;s next door neighbor was recently attacked (though not killed) by wolves. Dr. Geist&#8217;s account and discussion is (<a href="http://personal.inet.fi/luonto/mikael.broo/Val.htm" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">here</a>).</p>
<p>Be all that as it may, history teaches humanity that only a stone-cold fool would dare a wolf pack at night. Even USFWS &#8220;biologists&#8221; get bit, and they are like little Dr. Dolittle&#8217;s, right? They commune with the wolves and are the two-legged friends of wolves, unless the wolves are hungry, which is most of the time for wolves.</p>
<p>The wolves released in Catron County, NM, were 3-strike killers of livestock. Are you so completely dense, SA, as to believe those wolves would not attack a child or adult should the opportunity arise? Unarmed, do you think a big, strong boy like you could fend off a wolf?</p>
<p>Those who would dump blood-thirsty predators into the backyards of their fellow humans are evil, SA. That&#8217;s a purely evil thing to do. And it is not surprising (to me) that purveyors of pure evil, like you, SA, would wish to hide under a rock of anonymity.</p>
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		<title>By: Ronald Reagan's Ghost</title>
		<link>http://www.sosforests.com/?p=504#comment-18642</link>
		<author>Ronald Reagan's Ghost</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 00:30:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sosforests.com/?p=504#comment-18642</guid>
		<description>Wow!  I've never seen so much misinformation packed into 10 or so paragraphs.  Where to start?

How about here:  "Wolves are not wonderful animals or good neighbors. Wolves are blood-thirsty predators that attack and kill pets, livestock, children, and adults."

And where is the evidence that wolves have killed children or adults? Of course, there is none. There is not a recorded case of a wolf killing an adult (or child).

Give me a break!! Shame on you, Mike!  Your credibility and high journalistic standards have suffered a serious blow!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow!  I&#8217;ve never seen so much misinformation packed into 10 or so paragraphs.  Where to start?</p>
<p>How about here:  &#8220;Wolves are not wonderful animals or good neighbors. Wolves are blood-thirsty predators that attack and kill pets, livestock, children, and adults.&#8221;</p>
<p>And where is the evidence that wolves have killed children or adults? Of course, there is none. There is not a recorded case of a wolf killing an adult (or child).</p>
<p>Give me a break!! Shame on you, Mike!  Your credibility and high journalistic standards have suffered a serious blow!</p>
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